051 Working With Recruiters and Other Questions Answered

Today on job seekers radio were doing a question the answer these are career questions that have come to us from all over and we have a few that we want to readout and respond to will do these occasionally where we grab these questions and answer because we find these consistent themes that come up over and over again and we wanna make sure that you have some tangible answers from scott myself right so will will mentioned this at the end as well but if you have questions whether in response to things we say in this podcast or any others a we want you to give us that feedback ask the questions either on the website or andy a rate and review and we will answer your questions is well it’s super easy just go the job seekers radio dot com there’s a contact us little section on their super you write it do let us know if you have questions we’re gonna talk about a few questions here the first question is i just met a group of people through my current employer who do the type of work that i would like to do how do i lead the group no i want to join that particular group so where were our understanding this to mean that he is in he or she will just say he this time he’s in a position he works for somebody who has a client and it’s the client who is doing the work that this guy wants to do ultimately like an that could be pretty tricky but i think that if you’re in especially if you’re in sales position where you are being introduced to this group or company whatever it is an end you discovered that they do the kind of work you wanna do if you’re in sales you should be doing a follow up conversation with him any way and so when you think about the fact that everyone likes to talk about what they do about their own strengths about the things that make them feel good a specially professionally then to go to that companies say hey i want to circle back i want to have a follow up conversation which you you sketch of that and you let the the the company no i want to know more about what you do how did you get into that kind of work how do you find clients how do you get involved in that and you’re asking questions about that person’s career that makes them feel good in so as you continue to show your curiosity about that and you could talk about your own skills that would make you a good candidate for doing that work you don’t have to ask the company can i join you they will ask you to join them yes it’ll just happened organic right because you took initiative you became an agent of your career an i would ask myself in this situation how is it that you’re in a role but you don’t feel is fulfilling enough for you to start right there were some good reasons for that but i know that good quite here’s a question i would ask as a coach to this person or you just trading one for another or is this a grass is greener situation as we ignore the virtue and the value that were already getting to take something else because we think it’s better now it could be that as a consultant he is in the general field but not doing actual work that really drives him in that scenario then basically what you wanna do is network into the company the person that it was in charge of your meeting where you witnessed what you like doing that’s your first step but you should also be reaching out to others with enzi the group or at least within that that specific field to network to show you’re interest to to be curious i want to know more about that specific processor that specific outcome how did you get they’re just so you show you’re curiosity you’re going to get some interest you may even especially if this is a project if you’re doing a project as a client vendor relationship i would volunteer to either leave that project or be integral in the success of that project so you can demonstrate skill not only tier player but to the client yeah were you wanna do the work i hesitate to suggest to people that they used their current job in order to get the job from one of their clients in the thing if it happens all the time i’ve i’ve known several people in my career who end up going to work for the vendor or the client or whoever the other party is because they saw the value that this individual gave to the company that currently employed done so i i think about my friend christian who we were both working for the same a corporate housing company and she was really good at doing the coordinator work that she was doing but she wanted to move up and was continually stein need for a number of reasons it’s basically our employer saw her as being really valuable enrolling didn’t want her to leave so they wouldn’t give her the opportunities to grow in so once are partner company got an idea of just how valuable she was and how much she did and how talented she was they offered her a job to do exactly what you wanna do she she wasn’t trying to manipulate anything it’s just that’s the way that happened if you really are passionate about working doing worked at this other companies doing network just to network and stay present yeah it may not be that there’s any job available now but things happen but i think point the the example i always give us hey is there may not be an opportunity today but tomorrow somebody get fired because somebody retire relocated promoted god forbid they die now did you wish that on anybody well maybe some skinny none of these things and that’s called the natural course of this talk to them talk to them down resident stay connected incubate that relationship over time and we opportunities are presented where you could fill a gap that company you’re gonna be in a position of strength store next question emi applying wrong this individual we were not going to redo the entire question because it kind of runs on the this person has been out of a job for about a month she goes on to say she has four hundred active applications out she’s heard back from maybe five could be for my mom says i’m not networked enough to work out here could that be what it is yes yeah that’s the simple answer yet anytime i hear somebody that’s keeping track of applications and try in in through the analytical mind i i can sniff it out only ’cause i’m like that well analytical and people talk about applying for for work as a numbers game in i guess that is a perspective you could take that you know if you’re going to send out a thousand reza macy mike evans interview we yeah that’s not really an effective way to judge you’re job search well it can be if you’re numbers in this case were looking at five out of four hundred yeah so so that one percent the race of the question why would you keep doing that well or is there something wrong with the way you’re applying right at the reza may argue just so there may be facing things that are demonstrating okay in saudi reza mayor where it’s very clear that you’re not a match you’re just applying to apply oh cross my fingers maybe they’ll give me a chance will part of her her background here at the long running question is that she has a customer service background and ity help desk but she wants a full ity job and yet she doesn’t necessarily have all this skills she needs she her background certainly doesn’t show the idea of being a fulltime fulltime help r i t position all she has his help desk an she doesn’t go into anything about what her strengths are a wetter interests are she just wants the ninety job when she then finishes with my mom says i’m not where networked enough to work out here okay i think you’ve got your answer doing the networking will help you answer a lot of the questions come up with a better story and actually make those four hundred applications applications are three hundred applications actually effective is added effort yeah that would push you over the top well it it when you think about it ever that hopefully means added value as you’re talking about what is it that you really want to do do you know what that is other then just getting a full ity job what does that actually mean there’s so many things so many questions that this this question generates that it’s hard genetic code that’s what we’re thinking right you gotta help me understand like fifty questions already because she starts off also i got fired about a month ago so oh will hang on yeah but what i heard what happened there the reason why were actually including this question is there are a lot of questions that should be answered before you get to why is this not successful and if you need help in discovering those questions networking is going to help you get some of the answers if you can’t afford to have a coach this is the person who would really probably benefit a lot from a coach because that coach is going to be able to ask the questions what happened when you lose you’re lost her job what’s going on you know was if you have a customer service background and you were let go is it because you work providing good service or was it because you were showing a lack of interest in doing network because you’re interest is actually getting these other job there’s so many things to unpack and all of that we can’t offer treatment until we diagnosed illness and right now there’s too many questions for us to make an assessment that’s meant but what i would say in terms of advice is know what you’re going for make sure all of you’re materials you’re linked in you’re resonant or in alignment with that same and you’re seeking an antenna go talk to people people know give me one that to yes no fly you want what you want these are things that are basic questions that you should be able to answer because if you’re just putting the application out there and nothing else hopefully you’re writing cover letters when you send these out then that begs the question what do you saying in the cover letter there’s so much that you you need to dive into for this individual i’m going to say listen to you’re mother sorry say that everybody not everyone but most get out there start talking to the people who were doing the work you wanna do and make sure that you can then answer the question why you wanna do it to let’s move onto the next career question this person asks does applying willy nilly leaper internal job postings damage your career i apply for pretty much anything i slightly consider i had a conversation yesterday with a co worker and they made the comment they didn’t think they’d apply for a job that would be a lateral federal move but does sound kind of interesting as they’d want to don’t want to appear scattered in unfocused this never occurred to me what are your thoughts i agree with a coworker yeah i think applying willy nilly either inside you’re company or outside of your company is it’s not a good idea and the reason why is because if you’re just applying for everything and then someone ask you why do you want this job how do you respond to that there’s no focus i want job well that’s nice you know tell me why i should hire you then it it it’s it’s a week starting point it typically comes from a position of i’m bored i’m not engaged i’m not fulfilled there’s something else going on here the exact there’s there’s always a question behind or answer behind it answer question behind a question right hasn’t been discussed yet let let’s put the best possible spin on this i apply willy nilly for every internal job i can’t because i love love this company and i wanna learn more about it if that’s the case don’t apply for the job do the job shadowing through your company to show you’re interest in the company if you keep doing that you you will become visible to the company leaders who understand that you want to know as much as you can about this job so that you can really created career within it that is gonna be really good for you but if you’re not having those conversations how will they know if you’re just applying it comes to the idea of the spaghetti you know you throw it on the wall to see if it sticks well i don’t throw an awful lot of spaghetti that way we should have a movie called be accidental canada that’s a good idea that would be a good one what it is that they were gonna do this on practice right i mean what’s the point and that that’s fine i i’m having a tree well maybe you’re just demonstrated everybody you know i wanna be a receptionist nothing wrong with being a receptionist i actually know i have a couple of friends that love doing the work that’s how they meet so many people do idea is if you have no focus then you have a week story the talent why very compelling adamas exactly where i was going why would people listen to you if you’re applying to every job just because you are bored or because you don’t know what you wanna do there other ways to find out what you wanna do other ways to keep from being bored i don’t think that’s a good strategy an you mentioned earlier i think about strength quest their strengths finder there’s a number of different assessments that you can take with very little money and often you’re company probably has a these types of services already available to you if you were to ask yes yeah talk talk to you’re hr or you’re development folks defined out what learning opportunities you have available trust me if they make these things available and many companies do especially the larger the company the more they can offer take advantage of them if you are always taking advantage of self development opportunities aunt coming back to the company table just say i want to to add more value and that’s the conversation you’re having then you’re going to be able to move in other positions but that also means you don’t have to be applying willy nilly i just think that’s a week strategy be more active be more engaged take control you know we have there’s a lot to what do you wanna do decide that first don’t just apply for everything it’s scattershot and it doesn’t help you that brings us to schizophrenia question number fork i’m just kidding were just put in some humor into this and this is actually a two part question question a i’ve been looking for some new jobs passively in technology question number one why do some recruiters flat out ignored profiles in offered jobs that are completely too high level and it sounds like a m a kennedy mismatch yeah that’s what i’m feeling mismatched yeah so let let’s just say that he is he’s working in data analytics i think is what the the profile said and he’s a recent college graduate someone has reached out to him about a job for what she’s not qualified or he doesn’t feel w doesn’t feel caulfield health i okay my response to that having recruited over the years is they see something that interests them and it maybe the they don’t need you to be fully qualified with a lot of experience because you’re going to have opportunities to grow into the position if that’s the case then they’re already expressing interest and a potential potential value in you that’s a compliment end the way this was worded i’m wondering if you’re looking at that that there’s something wrong with that i think it’s a compliment i would take advantage of tell me more about the role yeah in okay so you as you see on my of my life that i don’t have any experience here is experience really lynch pin in the success for this or will i be learning along the way you may be handed on a silver platter a great opportunity now if instead you come back in you challenge them and why don’t you look at the profiles did you look at my profile yeah i’m going to say thank you have a great day because that that’s not inappropriate not not not to mention the recruiters take abuse all day long yeah they they have a kennedy they’re dealing with hiring managers of dealing with their training schedule interviews they’re trying to get offers out yeah that that that that’s not they don’t need grief from kennedy right they actually being abusive yeah it the other side of this if you have a coach your coach should be asking you why on earth would you would you ask that of year recruiter why do you look at it that way because there’s a good likelihood that you think you’re not capable when somebody else sees capability that is something you really wanna work on to become more confident in your you’re natural abilities in why would you say no the hiring team that won kind of baffles me yeah well they were the second part to this schizophrenia question and that is what defines the paid level in contrast to the skills required an in this case he provided some low unemployment numbers and what appears at least to me it’d be low compensation numbers from the geography he’s in okay so let’s answer that on on its face they be idea that we’ve got really low unemployment are area end you’re offering a low pay well most companies at least if they’re large enough to have a compensation analyst or manager they’re going to be looking on a regular basis at what the market in your geographic area as well as within the field what does that pay for that level most companies that i work with us directly or or know about generally don’t start people at even the middle of the salary range they’re going to be a little bit lower than the mid range of what they might have budgeted for that position most companies will tell you what the budget is they’re just gonna tell you if they say anything at all they’ll tell you what the target pay is but that’s because they’re looking at a whole bunch of different factors what i generally tell people is you need to do your homework as well what research have you done about the job that you’re looking for in the geographic area that you are are looking giving your skill set what what is the pay rate that you think is fair and i i never ever tell people come up with a single number always working arrange right because then if their range overlaps with your is now you know where you’re sweet spot is in both of you win in that situation what what i’m getting from this is a lot of assumption about out what you think is a low salary and it may be that this company has that job title is actually the lower pay who knows in job titles from company the company you’re gonna very bad ass on roles duties responsibilities is an compensation absolutely that’s why it’s so important a taxi get to the interview understand the role and make a decision on compensation later on when you understand the role in they understand you’re skills and you agree that you wanna work there right so this person is a recent college grad i think that’s great so he he’s been exposed to all these different things with in a data analytics told the the different a and he’s fresh yeah yeah but but he has the oldest dollars that that’s fantastic maybe not a lot of experience but is it possible that the roles that’s being filled doesn’t need all that is it possible that the role that he is applying for is actually focused in a small area and they really need somebody with unlimited skill set to come in and do this kind of work so that actually makes sense the lower salary is there well it could be a contract firm it happening out there a lot of yelling at a hundred and fifty and paying twentyfive yeah i don’t know okay so there’s so many variables there but what would i the feeling i’m getting from the scott is he’s kind of a passive kennedy these recruiters are coming to him he’s being combative in the the salary if it’s a recruiter reaching out to you at the front end of the conversation that’s too early they have any celery live dream and we talked about that i think in another podcast about you know how do you handle that salary question i’ll see if i could locate that and put it in the show notes but he ideas hey i’m it’s a little early in the process to be discussing compensation i would like to learn more about the requisition the role in i’m sure you have a budget what you’re budget you may not get that number should forward rather than pushing it away match your skills whether their experience or or educational doesn’t really matter see if it’s actually a match to the role that you’re talking about that you would desired maybe you are qualified do senior level work because there is no one else out there that can do that were sure maybe not kennedy but he was the one who got all the leverage now yeah again i i would have this person talk to to a coach or to a friend who is could mentored him to to really dig a little deeper into what it is he’s looking for and why he’s making me assumptions and he’s making that brings us to the last question of the podcast it’s been so wonderful being with you folks but this is the last question is reaching out to a recruiter from a company too much after some minting per job on their site after applying for a job would it be too much also reach out to recruiter on linked in no it’s not too much i think it’s a a best practice actually now be gentle went into it if you come onto forcefully than that probably is gonna turn that person up but with that said there’s nothing wrong with reaching out to a recruiter after you’ve submitted you’re you’re rest of may know that a lot of people do that so it’s unlikely you’ll be only one the bigger question is is the recruiter ashley gonna see her messaging respond to it and good point at an i can’t imagine i’m just thinking out it loud right and you’ve probably been there that they average recruiters proudly carrion thirty fifty requisitions hundred plus kennedy’s per requisition that plus all the teams are supporting offers right interviews all that a lot of work that’s a lot of email yeah okay my suspicion is they may not be seeing that email or they might have filter set up that any emails from kennedy it’s kind of flow into neverland if you will and they only respond to emails from their own corporate structure or they’re responding to emails cetera replying to their initial contact yeah unfortunately email is a great way to screen out a lot of messages so but with that said if you have an opportunity to actually speak to the person person then take advantage of that opportunity just don’t beat them up about it just say i i submitted my reza may i hope that i can be considered and then give them one compelling reason why they should look pre reza may it may be that you not only reach out to the recruiter but maybe you find somebody you know a friend a family member whatever somebody used to work west that works inside the company and let them know you applied and see if they can’t put their their two cents in ontario canada see so they other the later part of it would it be too much to reach out to the recruiter on linked in again no but linked in is a great opportunity to find out if you know somebody else on me inside i just helped a friend of mine recently he was applying for a job that it turns out an acquaintance of mine actually works there and so although he doesn’t work inside hr he he agreed to at least help where he could so i could introduce him the two of them to see if maybe something happen that is a great tool don’t hesitate to reach out to somebody on me inside that does it for this episode of job seekers radio you can get all show notes in resources that job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero five one we also want to call your attention to a free resource that we’ve created download from the job seekers radio dot com the free e book anatomy of a networking conversation this is something andrew and i put together just for you every single question here theanswer could be in that networking to find the solution to that problem whatever that problem might be so thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio your investment of time and attention is really appreciate it head on over to i tunes in fact there’s a link right here on the show notes whether you’re on your mobile device or on the web go ahead and click that i tunes link an subscribed to get future episodes while you’re there could you please