The jobs reports don’t always tell the whole story. There are a myriad of situations that individuals have endured that are not reflected in the data reporting.
Scott and Andrew have your covered! Talking about situations when you have been looking for awhile and just unable to secure the right full-time job.
Don’t miss these Topics:
- The data tell a story.
- What to do about your individual situation.
- Getting out of the situation you are in.
- The value of self-care.
- Different types of work arrangements.
- Mindset required to succeed.
Resources (including affiliate links)
Raw and Unedited Transcript
00:00:01 – 00:05:07
local job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This podcast is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. stor whether you are working or not by the way. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. Isn’t he book book that we put together for you. It’s free so you can download that on job seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show we talk about a recent article that was published in The New York Times. We will actually put a link to the article in the show notes just as a cliff notes version of this article. It was talking about people. That still can’t find jobs in today’s marketplace so really. We’re we’re covering topic cold. What do I do when I just can’t find fulltime work and I want to start out by saying that? I’ve been in those shoes back. During the great recession I spent three years ears looking for full time work and was not successful until three years later finally landing a job given that I have personal experience experience with it. I have a very different idea of what that looks like from those who have been working all their lives. Yes it makes me more empathetic it. It makes me more sympathetic for those who are currently in a similar situation. Also just this past week I had a chance to talk to a woman who is now in the same situation at three years still unable to find full time employment the fact that this article came out in the New York Times. This week really hits home. What’s different is that? We’re now in a period. where unemployment is remarkably low? Although I will say it’s still just as warped warped a number as when the great recession was happening while during my three years of unemployment because there are so many people who don’t get counted in the unemployment numbers. We’ll talk or we’ll hear talk a lot about how we’re at. Historically low percentages that doesn’t address the fact that there are people out there who still are dealing with long-term unemployment. Let’s also recognize when I see a headline like that is designed to get clicks and sell advertising and Sell Newspapers K.. On both sides right. So here’s the bad. Here’s the lowest employment in forever or people. People still can’t find work it. We’re going to these two extremes in order to get people to read articles that’s the first thing but there is some data that was included in this article that I thought was worthy the of being shared the rate of people who are unable and just gave up on their active job search in September twenty nineteen was six point nine percent that amounts was to about eleven million working individuals in the United States willing and able to work eleven. Million people is a big number. That isn’t being counted in my point and that means that this is real the fact that people can’t find work Israel but we’re here to offer you actionable items actionable things things in this podcast to push through that barrier. Because you have to. I think about the this idea that people stop looking well yes to greater or lesser degrees. Raise some people stop looking the way they normally do or the way their unemployment benefits required while they were receiving them after a few months. Serve serve however long. Your state gives you just because you’re not looking in the way they require doesn’t mean you’ve actually stopped looking i. I won’t discount the fact that yes some people will stop looking. They can afford it or they have a support network that allows them to but even they come back into the job seeking numbers. Those numbers don’t get counted. Well you never know who’s in and who’s not counted and who isn’t and how do they get these numbers. And how do they relate. It’s is really what I know. I don’t really know well. I’m curious because having been through it when they stopped counting me. Was it just because I I have. My unemployment benefits ran out. My understanding is that’s usually when people stopped getting counted is when there unemployment runs out. That doesn’t mean that they have stopped looking at means Sir there. They’ve just stopped counting the next step from there. Who are these people? And so that’s part of it so there’s really two categories that people see people that are just making it cobbling together trying trying to keep their mind right and doing whatever it takes to put in together then the other side of the equation is okay. Yes these people gave up looking. But they didn’t have to look and there’s everybody nobody in between sure of their financially. Okay they maybe have some assets or spouse that’s working or whatever else not that they weren’t motivated but they weren’t forced yes yes to find some. They’re not in the same situation another number. That doesn’t get counted as all the people that are in jobs they hate and are still looking. Yes or they’re working part time when they need full-time employment or they’re working for less pay than they actually need at fulltime and so they’re looking for a second job to make ends meet.
00:05:07 – 00:10:09
All of these things come into play. That was is actually a number. They shared in the article. That came from Gallup which is doing all kinds of surveys in research on this kind of thing and they came up with a number that sixty percent right now sixty percent of. US workers feel they’re in mediocre or bad jobs or a multitude of temporary part-time arrangements. So you think about those who have been in out of the workforce for a long time or for whatever reason. They can’t get the full time work that they want. They’re not just competing with others. who are out of work? They’re competing with with those who are in bad jobs. It keeps that funnel for the recruiters really full. So how do you break through the noise so that you get noticed it is a perennial issue that we answer questions about all the time. And that’s why we talk a lot about networking as an effective search method. Believe we’ll get to that in a second. I can’t I just WANNA shout out there to those people that are kind of in a portfolio career where I feel like I’m in a portfolio career like I have some contract work. I’m doing with the company. You have my own business. Doing freelance work doing this. PODCAST that I guess could be considered a job even though it’s something we do as a Labor of love right and I’m in the same situation I have full-time employment but I also do work on side as a Gig to expand my reach because right now the fulltime job is only you know. I’m basically a one trick pony at work and and I love what I do. I WANNA keep doing it. But this the the side gigs. Allow me to expand my reach so these are ways that we can create a larger career for ourselves in a sort of portfolio. I think that’s a great term. And there’s pluses and minuses too. That the the plus is I have some flexibility to decide. The minuses flexibility means. I don’t have anything that’s consistent all the time. At least in my situation right I might have income spurts. BIRT’s not income streams exactly and for those of us who do have fulltime work. At least we got a base that we can rely on. Nobody knows how long that’s GonNa last. I it doesn’t matter the situation. There are no guarantees. I’m fortunate to have fulltime work. That allows me flexibility in my schedule. So that if I need to do a side Gig I can and I consider myself fortunate to be in that situation. Not Everybody in that. Do your best to find out if that’s a A possibility sure with your employer so the other part of the equation. Scott that when we read this this particular article people are still relying on traditional methods of research and and nothing wrong with that. Okay it is something I encourage people to do. It makes sense exactly. Let’s look at where we get the results in a a conversation I had with one of the placement professionals. Here in the Portland area. We were talking about some advice. I’ve been given by yet another consultant consultant. Who wanted me to change up my resume and to make it a functional resume which is fine having worked within the HR realm? For as as long as I have I also know that. Generally speaking functional resume is an indicator that I don’t have the right experience with those skills or in that job so it’s sort of a cautionary flag if not a red flag and I’m not sure I wanna do that so I asked this consultant. Her feeling on it and her response was used resume. That gets you interviews. I apply that to the job. Search do the kind of job search that gets you results. And if you’re doing a traditional job search where you’re you’re finding the jobs that you want to apply to end you send off the resume and you actually are getting responses and getting interviews. Keep doing that. But if you’re not getting those calls and not getting interviews from them you gotta find a different way about and each one of you need to make a decision on your Tolerance Level Chore Or. What is an acceptable acceptable number of interviews based on the applications? I’m doing how much time you have in between those interviews. I if again. You’re in the Lucky lucky group. That can just okay. I’ve got plenty of money sitting there. I can live on great That means you don’t need a lot of results right away for many of us we need to. Let’s see something a little faster. We WanNA see direct correlation between an application in an offer and that doesn’t always come no or even application to interview. We have to look at our conversion rates there right and each one of us is going to have something different. The idea is for doing job. Search online we were talking in a prior episode about this idea. Yeah that that a lot of these jobs search websites probably have people in them that came from casinos or in some ways making their platform a little more more attractive to you so you spend more time there because there’s no end to it. You search list of jobs and you think you’ve gotten to the end and then there’s another page right and then there’s another page and then there’s another pay and if you change one word on your search criteria suddenly you’re getting a whole different list or at least a half of it is different and so yes.
00:10:09 – 00:15:07
It’s it’s a process that never ends if you think about what it is that’s actually motivating you as you’re doing your search that’s also going to help you understand if I keep doing the same same thing over and over again the same traditional search or maybe the same nontraditional search but I keep doing it and I’m not getting results O. K.. Why why do I keep doing it? I’m going to make the assumption that those who keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results are not in fact insane. Even though that’s the definition of insanity there is a reason. What are they getting out of this? If it’s just the dopamine rush of saying Hey I did my ten applications today okay. That’s great glad. Let you feel good about it. Tell me where that’s leading you. Did you get the call for the interview. No I also think about what if all I’m doing is networking and I’m not sending out applications. How is that working for me now? I have a preconceived idea that networking is a better way to do it. That’s because that’s what works for me even when I’ve gone on jobs in the past just from an online application which has happened. Actually that has happened more often for me than for others. I now. But it doesn’t mean I stopped networking working networking is where I actually get that dopamine the fulfillment that the feelings of wow that was really good experience. I rarely get that feeling from an application occasion. But when I’m out there doing the networking and I’m talking with people and I have these really great conversations. I get something out of that so I want to do more of that and often often. That’s called oxytocin right. It’s positive addictive. The chemical chemical in your brain right that comes from actually interacting with people and feeling progress. That’s good inorganic well. And I’m a big believer in making connections especially as we hear about the traditional online search. Okay it’s funny that we use traditional traditional when that really has only been in the last twenty years you think about this this has become the norm and we here other professionals. At least I hear it all the time. I’m fairly certain you do too about how some people love. To blame the millennials. They are not the only ones doing this. All they do is use their technology. Everybody starts to pull in and they’re using their technology is just to give an idea of what that looks like. I’ve heard so many times people saying oh well you get on your commuter rail you know the the subway subway whatever your commuter mass transit is and you look at all the people and they’re all on their phones. Aren’t we terrible society because we are all on our phones and I saw online. This was a couple years ago. A picture of people on the New York Metro Line on the commute. They were not on cell phones because of course cell phones weren’t invented yet they were all reading the paper same process. So let’s stop blaming the tools and the technology and all this stuff. We’re going to do the same things things what has happened is we now have so much more information so much more entertainment so much more of everything available on that technology and they have these people working for them to keep you on their technology right. So there’s there’s a lot more going on with that. We have the ability to connect with people if we do so intentionally. And that’s the the advantage of networking not to mention the keeping up with the Joneses. Well we’re we’re people in the specifically in job search where two people have similar skill sets similar experience right. Everything seems to line up. What guy gets the job? One guy doesn’t or GAL al.. Take your one person right and the person that didn’t get the job feels what’s wrong with me or more. Oh my gosh. That person got that happened to me more or then once. I came in second so many times during my my long-term unemployment and I would say to people always the bridesmaid never the bride but seeing that happen online line just makes you feel worse Sir and especially if somebody you know exactly son of a gun actually good for you. Yup and I asked that personal case was the process like for you and that can go one of two ways either. They had the same experience that they just happened to win or they had much better experience. And now I’m feeling worse that happens to that brings up a lot in the category of self care not allowing knowing ourself to Kennedy Been Mild depression or at least going that way to a dark place. Psychologically you’ve heard me say it before a number of times it. It is okay to give yourself permission to rest. That is probably the one thing that kept me sane. During the three years of unemployment is when someone said you have permission to take time off from your job search because of course I had no money left. I was living with family. I I I was lucky enough to have family live with and I won’t get into that part of the conversation about the definition of a homeless.
00:15:07 – 00:20:01
The idea is I had a network and I had had the significant need to get work and yet the thing that kept me going was giving myself permission to just take arrest. I wouldn’t rest. It’s too long. I’m not talking about a whole week or a whole month of not looking but maybe the rest of today or never leaving the house kind of Oh outright often it was get out of the house because spending the whole time in the house trying to find work online get Outta the house. Go Up to Japanese gardens. Her go to the coast or go to the park. Do something that doesn’t cost me any money. It’s doing something that feeds you that you’re taking care of yourself and when I was reading this article it was really interesting thing that the people weren’t really clear on why they were doing what they’re doing and it’s so easy which actually perpetuates. I think that the depression released depressive thoughts. Lots is at blaming somebody else for your circumstance you know what I mean. Yeah well playing playing the victim my own experience. I was a victim I chose does not to use that term. There were some unfair practices going on at the organization where I was working and I lost my job albeit part of a larger layoff effort. The company can you that what they did was not ethical and in a couple of ways illegal. I didn’t allow that to give me an excuse for not putting my best foot forward. I was victimized but instead I tried to turn that around to. What can I learn from this so that I set up a better fit in my next job? And it wasn’t sent taking the onus off of me it was shifting it it was reframing it that okay I wasn’t treated fairly what can I do differently moving forward so I’m really looking looking at the future not at the past. What can I do today in this moment? That is going to set me on a different trajectory and I found that to be particularly helpful. That’s also what got me involved with the breakfast club and moderating that and I had a network of people that you included that helped me get onto a very a different journey that has helped me enormously. That’s why we talk about. Why am I doing what I’m doing and often you can look at? Let’s say applications. Why am I doing? Applications is that generated results. Why am I staying at home right? And getting down to that base reason that it’s not serving me and once I get to a point where I’ve identified something that’s not serving me. I need to make a decision to stop doing it. That’s hard okay. The decision itself may not be that difficult. It’s the acting on amid admitting your point is absolutely spot on if I figure out why I’m doing what I’m doing and it’s not serving me the next question. What am I going to do about it because if I choose not to do anything about it then? It’s nobody else’s fault that I’m not making progress now. It’s completely on me regardless of the fact that I was treated unfairly and lost the job right now now it’s on me now. You’re not empowered either. You haven’t empowered yourself okay. You’ve disempowered yourself when I realized I had permission to rest. That also gives me that same same permission to now get up and do something different and is it going to take effort yes. Am I going to get tired. Yes am I going to fail at some level on this. Yes and that’s okay because those who you’re learning experiences we don’t learn from our successes we learn from our failures are successes. Validate our choices uses. When we talk about self care we also have to recognize when were being what I would call absolutist like? I never do this or I always that or and we’re going knowing kind of to an extreme like networking never worked for me. Therefore I’m not GonNa do it anymore or applications right there right in front of me. They’re easy I’m going to keep keep doing those. Because they’re always there this fundamentalist mindset that it’s just the way it is than we can’t see something new. I often hear people say you know what I know. I need to try something in different. But I feel like I’ve tried everything I actually liked those conversations because you can pretty quickly figure out some things they have done yet and that’s just by asking them about what they’ve done. Okay what did you there. Have you considered that. Tell me about the avenues. Well what avenues do you think could be there. I also just read a brief e-learning on reverse first brainstorming and I okay what’s that will. The idea is instead of brainstorming for solutions you brainstorm on those things that would make your situation Asian worse seriously. Yeah in the context of job search. Okay what doesn’t work for you. What would happen if you keep doing that? What happens if you dig even deeper into to that and what it does is it starts to really identify the things that you are currently doing? That won’t be working for you all right now. I can list out all the things. That don’t work IRK now. I can start looking at things that I can stop doing. So if this is true that by staying at home and only applying to the jobs obsessed absolutely fit.
00:20:01 – 00:25:03
All of the things that I’ve been doing and I’m not getting any interviews for that if I keep doing that. Where’s that going to lead? Now I’ve explored the outcomes. The potential outcomes for the things that I’ve probably not doing very well. I can stop doing those because I now. I’m free to think about the things that might work. It’s a way to sort of wake yourself up. I’ve really enjoyed the little tutorial that I got one of the things that I found really helpful to me when I when I wanted to focus on self care was to really catalog the day to know that okay got up at this hour. I did this so that I could number one back my day and say okay. I did something today and that was helpful to me. It was kind of You know that I could demonstrate on paper that I actually did something. It also allowed me to look at what I did and say what actually worked does it really Mir the effective methods. Search that we know about. Did I actually leave the house so now I can see okay. Yes I may have tried everything but if I spent seven hours of my day online applications fifteen minutes in networking went for a walk for thirty minutes or whatever then I can. I can take a look at that and yes. I did something today but does that mirror the effect of search that right no from all the research we’ve seen between seventy and eighty five percents should be a networking but you bring up. Something that I think is important to at least acknowledge and that is is our own personal styles because as you started down that discussion on logging everything and tracking it and all that that is very analytical which is part if what drives your style preferences in for me that’s like Oh my God. I don’t WanNa do that. Because that’s not my style my styles to get out and talk to people and make those connections. I know Oh people that that would just blow their minds right. They don’t want to meet new people because they’re not comfortable whether they’re introverted or anything else. That’s just not their style. If I can acknowledge knowledge the fact that this is going to take effort for me to log all my contacts and to actually track how it’s doing to keep that spreadsheet if sure if that’s how you’re going to to log the activities that’s GonNa take me some effort. That effort actually has value. Maybe it’s not your style to get out of network and so you sort of resist. Resist that effort. If you make that effort you will have something accomplished whether or not it has a all the results. You’re looking for the first time you will have accomplished something you will hug grown and this is one of those things where yes. It’s not your style do it. Anyway I think it’s Meryl Streep among many people that talks about. She takes the roles that frightened her the things that take you out of your comfort zone. That’s where growth happens as you’re looking at the things that I just. I’m not sure I wanted to do it. Do something something different because you will feel like a more whole person by trying and the reason I brought up the catalog pieces because it’s helpful to identify if people pull. It tried everything that we know what they’ve tried in how much they’ve invested in that. Absolutely yes I am analytical but that’s how we diagnose sure so that we can provide a treatment demint as a coach. I have to know these things. If I don’t have anything to go on other than your word that you’ve tried everything. How am I gonNA know? What does that really mean? I’ve tried everything. Okay define everything thing. Yeah right you’re absolutely right even for those of us who don’t do the analysis in the sense of putting it one data point together one data point at a time. I still need to know. Oh these are things that if you don’t know how can I accept that you’ve done everything. We all have blind spots so if I’ve tried everything it’s everything I know I’m not try. Let’s try to uncover the things you don’t know to try. Have you put your resume on a roll of toilet paper right. You can print things on toilet paper. Have we’ve seen that. No you could actually print your resume until you the paper and put it in the business. You WanNa work. Do you think that would work job. That would certainly get attention. I think it’s hilarious. Thinking it was more of a commentary on the resume resume but it is. Hey Hey this is an idea. Maybe that’s your calling card. I’m not going to give you my business card. I’m going to they give you roll of toilet paper okay. That’s an idea. I had never thought of believe me. They’ll remember me. I do think that you should try new things. If only early to give yourself experience at doing things that you’re not necessarily going to choose on your own because when you think about it that also is a skill that is transferable in the job market if you are constantly doing things that take you out of your comfort zone that teach you new things that at least give you a new perspectives. That’s going to help you in an interview. Keep making making that effort. Don’t do only the things that you know how to do. Talk to people friends coaches your networking groups your associations and trade associations any group of people throw it out there that this is what you’re doing and let them help you come up with new ideas. It’s amazing what you can come up with in in these kinds of groups and for those of you that are still working.
00:25:04 – 00:28:03
I encourage you to do two things one. If you don’t need to find another job great good for you but make yourself tailable to those people who do so the way you pay it forward and give back to a community is by being available investing your time as you see appropriately and and the other side is never stopped looking. Never look always have your head on a swivel as they say in the military. You’re always looking for the next thing because there’s always unless you think there’s it’s nothing else that’s better which I don’t and you’re close to retirement. They’d if you Ford Alvarado that there’s nothing better. The thing is though I don’t think retirement is better. I don’t ever WANNA stop working. I never want to stop giving but I would love to get to a position where I don’t have stop working for the paycheck. I am working right now because I need an income I would love up to be able to work without need for an income because then that work would take on a slightly different nuance. Would I continue doing the kinds of things that I do now. Yes because is I love doing it in fact it. It’s I enjoy it so much. It has become part of how I I create my own identity with that sad. There are a lot of people who work because they I need the paycheck and they’re doing a job that just brings them the paycheck. It’s not necessarily something they’re passionate about. Here we get back into your point keep networking keep looking. Keep making making yourself available to a larger group of people that can talk to you about what you know to expand your mind on the things you don’t know to really be honing owning your interpersonal connections skills because that will always help you even on your current job that you love and you WanNa keep for the rest of your career. That’s why we’ve created the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. That’s a free download resource for you. The listener at job seekers radio DOT COM. You can get the show notes there at job. Seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero six five without. We want to thank everybody for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Your investment of time and your attention is something we really appreciate. We value that we really value that. And while. You’re on itunes. I I would encourage you to subscribe to the future episodes a while. You’re there it would be really helpful for us to get rate in review it because we wanna make this a better product for you number one and number two. If you have questions you can. We can always respond to those right and get you a direct answer. In fact I I like to put out there we we we are requesting questions and comments because these are really helpful to other people who may be thinking the same things so please send those to us and if you have the question it’s a high probability somebody else has it until we are happy to answer we want to. I’m Scott and I’m Andrew in the words of Gandhi as human beings beings. Our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world that is the myth of the atomic age as in being able to remake ourselves. If you change yourself you will change the world by everybody by.