058 How much is too much when applying at the same company FAQ Q&A AMA

00:05 – 05:32

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Scott. I’m Andrew this. This is a production that is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to find great careers faster whether you’re working or not today. We’re we’re going to be answering some questions. This is one of our QNA podcasts where we are asked questions and we sprint respond to them and really we. We want you to hear your own voice in this one. We want to make sure that we are answering questions that are relevant valid and that you are asking us so at the end of this. We’re going to ask you to get in touch with US and ask us more questions but here’s some questions that we’ve come across in the last several weeks and we we really feel compelled to answer them and we encourage you reach out to us on the web site or send an email whatever that looks like leave a comment if you have our phone number gives call give us a call. We’re in the book well. Did they move to. I’m surprised I even published a medical except for the advertising anyway we have some questions that we want to answer and we want to invite you to more so here. We go the first question and for this. QNA is is it bad to apply to multiple roles within the same company. The quick answer is no. It’s not bad. The question goes on though Oh to say a to ask about applying for the same company. this person specifically has a degree in pharmacy and about to achieve has licensure but doesn’t know if it’s really appropriate to continue to go back to the same company with applications. I personally you say I think it’s a great idea to go back over and over again to accompany. You’re really interested in working with there is one. I Dunno caveat. What is the right word but there’s one caveat and that is you’ve got to know why you want to work there. If it’s just because you here they pay well. That is not going to be a compelling reason for the person interviewing you. I just needed jobs in our yeah and they want somebody who really believes in the company he walking in the door so if you have done all your homework you’ve you’ve researched what this company not only says they’re about but actually what a day in the life. Ed looks like and you can speak their language. That’s going to get you further so the idea is make sure that you have your ducks lined up. You’ve done your networking thing you know your your stuff about that company and then tell them why you want to work for them. If you can lead with that you’re probably going to get a little further down the road. The beginning of this says hey is it bad to apply multiple roles within the same company. Yeah that leads me to believe that that’s that’s the only activity that they’re judging their success or failure on and I would not leave it there. I would say do the networking get inside the company us all the avenues available to you. If that’s absolutely the only place you’d like to work sure we were talking about rich prior to this our friend enrich who who works for an athletic company who who worked so hard on getting in that was the only company you wanted to work for and he applied for for many roles within the organization and he spoke to almost one hundred people hundred before he got his first interview. If I remember correctly they had a hiring hiring freeze yeah. I’m so quotes. He did informational interviewing a hundred times before he got the his first interview when they kind lose focus yeah focused and that that says a lot about your motivation and your ability to get in there and really do something good for them. The other caveat that I think wasn’t mentioned is I believe the answer to. This is company specific. Every company has different policy. I know for example many of the people that I’ve helped get into Amazon or aws if you go through a an interview cycle with them and you’re are not extended an offer. You can’t apply again for another six or nine months. Oh well and so that. I would say that’s company specific. Just make sure you know the company in this is also another reason why we advocate that you do the networking because there is no application there is no interview until tell you have a relationship built yeah and they near at an advantage in the odds go up and I can’t speak for Amazon or any other company that has such a policy but that I will say that most policies can be fluid if the need is there even if they have a policy I would not stop networking if you have identified one company that you truly want to work for make yourself visible and don’t be a stalker or a past but but make sure that they keep seeing you and the best way to do that is in networking whether that’s at an industry association function or or anything else that where they aren’t going to perceive you as as stalking them but rather that you are involved in the industry or in the discipline and they keep seeing you.

05:33 – 10:54

It’s just like going to the gym every morning. People Trust you after they’ve seen you many times not just because you show up in and have a great conversation with him. It could even be a company sponsored event it can be. I see those all the time. Here’s the next question. How do I get my foot in the door at hospital will. I hope that’s not fee for right. It’s not as a patient but stranger things have it. There’s more than one way to get a job. so in this case it sounds like there is a lot of confusion about what this person was seeking king who they are and a lot of times this comes from a position of desperation and what they said is they’re running out of options and they have a lot of debt and third position where. Hey I don’t WanNa do this even though I’ve been educated in looks like EKG technology but they don’t know what to do and another point. Daddy makes he or she on sleep. I don’t know the idea that I have a bachelor screen sociology well. I actually have a good friend who that’s how she started needed in hospital was as a counselor and then worked her way into a different positional together but the idea that US your background to your to your advantage bandage if you really want to get into a specific kind of company and you have an opportunity to do it if they know that your interest is is in this area and you are willing to do it it takes to get there including taking in this case and Ekg tech position. What’s wrong with that. You’re getting in the door. You’re getting into the company and if you take the attitude that I’m I don’t care if I get into the mail room as long as I get in that speaks well of you or the female room funny retort to that yeah so the other thing I’m hearing here is sometimes we look at our situation situation as permanent and I would look at any situation like this as permanent. Not a fact that you have debt is a circumstance that can be resolved. Yeah it may it. It may take longer depending on the roll right. Get a second job whatever it takes if you have the objective to get rid of that dead right you’ll find a way to do well but but coming wing into a lower position if they see that you have the skills and the positive attitude they will continue to leverage your skills really in that situation personally personally. I think it’s all about the attitude that you bring because that’s something I can’t train you one. I can help maintain a positive attitude as a leader but I can’t train rain you on having a good attitude. That’s what you bring to the table. That’s your contribution absolute and every employer is going to recognize people and if they don’t that’s an opportunity for you to look somewhere else. Sir and we always encourage you to keep the networking active whether you’re working whether you’re not just just always keep your head on his swivel always looking for something better yeah and and even with that. I know there are some. HR people that don’t really appreciate that when they’re interviewing and and if they see you jumping around they’ll they’ll ask questions and and and rightly so looking around at other opportunities isn’t necessarily an indication that you’re constantly looking to jump ship. It may work just as well to validate that you made the right I choice so don’t stop looking around at what’s happening in the industry. The other advantage of looking around is that that’s also a way to help Stay on the cutting edge of whatever your technological needs are. It’s validating not only for your skills but also your compensation. There’s only one way too known that’s to shop around talk to other. People network networks like crazy. Yes absolutely another question. this person asks asks what we would do lately he or she has been sending their CV and obtaining no feedback okay. We’ve basically really given this questions some airtime but we want to bring it up again because it. I think it’s really important especially those who have had a job search for sometime sometime. Not Hearing back from a company is not a reflection on you and your resume it is mostly a reflection on and how they work their open positions and so many times now even small companies are starting adding to use the automated system because they’re getting too many applicants and it takes too much of their individual time so they’re using systems uh-huh applicant tracking systems to help them manage managed the process yeah and so it may be that they have certain certain key words that you didn’t use in your resume or CV and and you just didn’t come up on the list that is not a reflection of you now with that that sad the advice that we always give is when you make an application send them a copy of your cv or resume using their key words because that’s going to help you show up in the applicant tracking system.

10:55 – 15:41

Don’t be too afraid that you don’t have one hundred percent of of their qualifications and and we talked about this you gave the steady yeah it was about fifty percent so and it’s actually less for women and which I found interesting they were tracking that statistic that it was somewhere in the neighborhood forty percent so in other words those who who have forty to fifty eighty percent of the qualifications are just as likely to get an interview as somebody who has eighty to ninety percent correct. Yeah always remember that the job description you’ve seen a job. Posting thing is a wishlist obviously the more qualified you are the more confident you can be but don’t rest on that to be your in remember remember that it’s probably going to be the networking that gets your name in front of the hiring manager or recruiter and then they reach out to give the interview you now if you’re lucky to be in that top five group great don’t beat yourself up because you didn’t hear back do continue to try network within the company if you’re truly interested working there and this typically is a question that we get when people are only doing me applications. The only feedback they get is nothing and that is feedback by the way. Why did that method just work. It isn’t very effective the challenges this is what the company advocates. This is what the company is saying. Don’t contact us. I put your stuff online and so as a good applicant I wanNA follow the rules. Put my stuff online and then they’re gonNA GONNA contact me. It almost like you know I really love Amazon and what they have put together in terms of hey I can get something in an hour. I can watch something on demand or I can get an audio. It’s like this service is excellent. I can put something in my shopping carts delivered two days later her okay. This is not Amazon. We’re not placing an order. No they’re not putting your application or you’re not putting your application in the shopping cart against that role and checking out with your credit card right and but we’re conditioned that yes no. I think that’s really good insight and that’s only going to get stronger in terms of the feeling of disappointment because the more we get that instant gratification the harder. It’s going to be to accept that. We don’t get instant gratification location after we submit a resume or even complete a phone screen that phone screen is really not designed to you find the best candidate directly what it’s doing is weeding out those who are not the best candidate so by a process of elimination when they find the best candidates and I know I can hear the voice of one of my recruiter fans. That would be telling me. That’s not really fair. Well functionally. That’s the way it works the truth the trump. I understand that that’s not their intention as they go through it. That is the function of the process for applicants. Don’t take take it personally find new ways to get on the inside of that employer conversation you know and then a lot of people say well. How do I do that. You know when all they’re asking me for. They’re putting up a brick wall and all these things. How do I get on the inside. It seems so difficult sure sure that’s why we came up with a free resource. If indeed we did it’s called the Anatomy of networking conversation right this will help you you get a round flanking strategy so to speak right on the ATS application process you just you need to understand that it’s going to take time. We will always recommend that you do your homework and finding out what the companies are that really float your boat in other words parts. which ones do I want to associate my name to and when you know what company you want to work for then it provides you a focus in that at networking so that you are not only talking to people trying to talk to people within the company but talk to people that talk to those in that company find out what they’re I like to work with or to work four? If you’re you’re talking to their vendors if you’re talking to people that they consult with what what is it like to be their customer so that you’re getting a bigger picture and then when you have that conversation with somebody on the inside your already speaking their language whether or not they recognize it you will resonate in their head but that takes time and effort not to mention that you actually feel better at the end of that.

15:41 – 20:00

Congress sure do when I’m sending in a resume application through an applicant tracking system. I’m not having a relationship right. I’m I’m doing data entry right. which I guess is a skill you could put that on your resume now that you have data entry skills maybe even your Lincoln profile and if you go with some companies I I almost named one that I think that they will take issue with if I were to criticize them on the air but there’s one in particular that the largest applicant tracking system out there and both HR and applicants complain about them because they’re not user friendly and it it it can be really frustrated worked with them but you will feel better after networking conversation than you will after sending out a an application online online and I will? I want to say if you’re like me where at least I’ve done something and now I feel better. If that’s your approach to to your job search that’s okay but remember that what you put in it is what you get out of. It and you’re GonNa get what the market gives you right right not so you’re pursuing something by way. That may not be what you want and so you just maybe nobody else wanted it and you ended up with it and and it turns out that’s not the right job for you exactly exactly no and so the second part of the question here was you know and some of this is true as we start to lose our confidence and we started to think something’s wrong with us or we start to seek. Answers are are not rational like Oh. We have nothing else to great. Make up our own stores. It’s it’s like okay we’ll do they keep a database on me and her. They talked to somebody who didn’t academia. Did they do research on me and find out. I’m AH closet Republican or let’s not go there no but your your point is well taken when you don’t hear back and that’s the only thing you’re doing then. The chances are pretty good. You’re going to be making up stories and usually many of us. Go to that area of Oh. I must not be good enough. Well if all you’re doing is an online online application. It probably has nothing to do with you now. This individual also asked the question. How important is it cover letter again. That’s company specific. We have no way of snowing and I have worked for different companies who treat cover letters differently in one company. We were told to read all cover letters in another company. It was optional and rarely only were they ever opened up. They always looked at the resume. I and I tell people assume that they’re going to look at your resume to see if you have the qualifications before. They’re going to bother thirty to read a cover letter but with that said if the company gives you an opportunity to write a cover letter use is it the only time you don’t want to use a cover letter is if they don’t give you the opportunity right so don’t force it right. Don’t don’t force a cover letter on the friend into your resume. Oh absolute irritating and it has it’ll mess up the applicant tracking system but we’re not relying on that anyway so my suggestion would be is that it’s better to have one than to not primarily because it’s much like a handwritten. Thank you note after an interview. I’m not writing it for the people who don’t appreciate it. I am writing it for the one who do there are a number of coaches talked to over the years that a few of them have given even me some advice that I really like and it seems to work well if they read the cover letter in the first one is to start with a question and about can you imagine this and then you go on to describe something a gap per for example that they may be experiencing that you can fulfill by asking them if they can imagine this what they’re what you’re doing is asking them to picture you in in that position. It is really effective then go on with a very brief idea of what you can bring to them if they talk to you. They’ll get more detail right so it’s just like a advertisement of sorts given the teaser picture or this situation.

20:01 – 25:00

I can help you with that. Here’s my resume which is a snapshot of my my history but let’s talk about my future with you you or your future with me. However you want to position that that’s going to be if they if they’re going to read it at all. Here’s something that makes them think Oh. Oh maybe I should talk to this guy if you match what they’re looking for. I’m of the Philosophy Scott that I am my best cover letter. If there’s any there’s any chance that I could be my own cover letter yeah whether through networking or a referral or some way that I can get in front of the right person to present. WAS THAT MY application. I’m GonNa do that right and a three dimensional me is much better than a two dimensional because when you think about the amount of of information mation communicated in a in a letter that’s three percent of what you have to offer three percent half of what you more than half of what we communicate indicate is in our body language. The rest of it is in tone of voice. You can attempt to create a tone of voice in written word. You can’t control how they here it. You can only control what you put out there right. If you can get in front of somebody that’s going to be your best cover letter now. What if you’re the type that that you’re not as assertive and you’re socially awkward. Okay totally understand that most people think I’m very outgoing and socially socially adapt and I’m not K. I. Honesty. I appreciate you. I am an ambivert. I go both ways when it comes to extroversion extroversion versus introversion and I am not as socially adept as I would like to be. I can’t let that stop me because I’ve got to make progress in my life and that’s the advice I would give other people like me especially introverts and those who have trouble asserting themselves the more you get into networking the easier. It becomes but you have to push yourself for awhile. I always appreciate that networking is hard. It’s hard for me. Even even though I come from sales I still appreciate the opportunity to sit down with a book or just have quiet alone. I appreciate all those thanks to what I found is. If I’m out networking for something I believe in or that excited about or a company I’d love to work for the networking is a whole lot easier because I have I have passion and authenticity behind me exactly and it reads through it reads through when you have a conversation with somebody and then you’re willing to do the things that you really don’t WanNa do because you know you have to do them. The thing is everybody else feels exactly the same way right and the common denominator of success is doing what other people are unwilling to do right. There’s another the thing your your comment on Tissot that that came to mind that I don’t think we talked about in networking conversation that is if you’re focused on getting a job with a certain company and you’re telling that company when you’re networking and you talk to people within the company of all the reasons why you want to work for them. make sure that you’re saying the same thing to everybody else that you’re talking to that. You really want to work for this company. especially if you’re talking to somebody who is well connected. Eh within the industry or the the community and they think that you’re only telling them that and it’s not authentic. You’ll shoot yourself in the foot really fast but if you really like like our friend rich you really WANNA work for this company. He you’ve done your research. You’ve done your information interviews and this is the company anyone work for. Make sure that you’re telling everyone that because eventually those people will tell other people who will tell other people that rich is the the one who wants to work there. Trust me that makes a difference well. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio. There’s a link down in the show notes on the mobile device for you to get the full transcript and all the free resources that we mentioned in this session just go to job seekers radio radio DOT COM forward slash zero five eight and that’s where you’ll find the anatomy of networking conversation e book that we put together before him Yep. Just plop your email in there and we’ll send it off to you now. Your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated. If you could just take a couple of seconds on your phone to go over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes feud provide us to rate and review. I want to hear from you. We appreciate the feedback. We want to make this a better and better product for you. The listener and we also WanNa thank those who continually listen to us. You’ve subscribed and you’ve provided as feedback. We do care we listen.

25:01 – 25:20

We WanNa make sure that your voices are heard whether it’s an QNA or any other podcast. We WanNa make sure that you hear your own questions. It’s coming up well. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott until next time. Don’t forget the common denominator. Success is doing things that other people are unwilling to do.