Chasing the dream job will occasionally fall short in the compensation category. Scott and Andrew talk about ideas and strategies for turning your dream job into a well paying vocation.
Don’t miss these Topics:
- How to handle the interview conversations
- Will the dream job really pay
- Turning your idea into reality even if you are working
- Real life coaching stories
Resources (including affiliate links)
Raw and Unedited Transcript
0:00 – 05:01
Today on job seekers radio. We’re talking about when the dream job just doesn’t pay so. Well, right. I think most of us who have been down the career path for any length of time, have run into this at least once. I am of the opinion that we should follow what we truly enjoy. Because the more you enjoy the less feels like work, and the word passion is often used in that sense. Follow your passion! Recently, I’ve been hearing, other coaches talk about how that may not be great advice, and I’m not going to go there, because I really think it depends on the person and what really drives you. If the idea of driving towards your passions keeps you motivated towards your goals. Go for it right? So I’m not going to get hung up on the words. I am of the opinion that we should be doing things that really make us happy, that brings us pleasure. Hopefully brings us joy, there’s a difference there. There is also point where sometimes following that following our bliss doesn’t pay the bills. It’s so funny you mentioned that because I had a conversation with the client actually just this morning about that same thing. And, you know, she was looking at all of the job titles, and job descriptions, going scratching the head. I don’t know what I wanna do will just tell me what you enjoy doing. Right. And what part of your job is soul sucking, and what part of your job is like, soul affirming, and creating and right. The gives you joy, and you have a smile, every time, you do it and often people don’t go back in look at the definition. Passion, and really, if you looked at the definition at something that’s worthy of you for, which you should sacrifice that you’d be willing to sacrifice to pursue it. And I think if that is your definition as you’re looking for that job. The sacrifice can be money as long as you’re paying the bills, right there. There is a breaking point. And sometimes we have to put off that passion. But that doesn’t mean we have to stop making it our goal we can still be working towards that. And keeping an eye on that, for those who do vision boards or other activities that help keep our minds focused on our goals. Then by all means put that on the vision board. Put it in, you know, this the sticky note on your mirror, whatever that looks like for you keep going, don’t sacrifice your future based on what you’re doing for today. So that’s the caveat that I generally give the other side of that. And. Not meaning to get into the negative right away, but just to help people stay of Jackson when, when they’re working on this. If you are taking job because they say, all the right things they say they believe in all the things that you believe in and you take the job knowing that you’re going to be underpaid whatever that looks like then you have to take responsibility for the outcomes as well. I have this has happened to me, a couple of times in my career where I’ve taken a job where they say, all the right things, and they, they really try to show me that this is what they believe in. Right. And they are values and I seem to be in perfect alignment with those values and over time. I realized that what they do, actually isn’t really an alignment to what they say they believe. And so now I’m working people that I no longer trust, because I trusted them to. Live what they believe at. No point is this truly their fault other than they’re not being authentic. They’re not in the interview, not in the right, right. So they’re out of integrity or consistent exactly from the interview to what’s really the job, right? Which is something we this is obviously why we encourage so many people to engage in networking. Because in the interview everybody’s gotta game face on. They want you to like them, and you on them to think you’re qualified to do the jar etcetera. And if you’re lucky enough to find something that, you think is a dream job than boy when the stars aren’t all in alignment, they’re financially speaking, that you have to make a choice, right? And there are things that you can do if you make the choice to take that dream job.
05:01 – 10:02
There are things that you can do to supplement your income. We, we hear about it all the time. Lansing, gig contract gig economy. All of that is available to you and the whole point of taking the dream job is if you truly get joy out of it, if it brings you energy, then it doesn’t feel like work. So you have the energy to do that second job or to do that extra gig somewhere around. Right. So you can have the finances to be stable, exactly or what have you. So when, when I’m talking to people about taking that dream job, generally speaking, that dream job also fulfills them from a style position. So if I’m really detail oriented, and I live in the weeds, I love doing research. I’m probably not going to be as happy taking the job as company spokesperson right out of water. Right. Because this spokesperson needs to be able to think in the big picture frames now, if your style purpose isn’t there, but you’ve learned how to do. That really well. And you can succeed doing that by all means. Go for it. If you really are driven by crunching, the numbers, then you probably going to be happier in the job, where you’re crunching, the numbers the dream job generally alliance with your style preferences when you get into that job and things are going, well, and you’re doing work that you really love. And then you find out later that the company is not as it was described to you. Now, you have another series of choices to make as long as the work continues to be fulfilling you can keep doing it, this is choice. You are now choosing to do work that you love for a company that you don’t part of the process that I see Scott is some people get in this position or this mindset, that, oh, the dream job, yet it exists, but nobody’s gonna pay me to do that. Right. So they have this limiting belief and they’re making. Assumption without actually holding the risk at arm’s length. Yes. And that’s totally understanding understandable. So I don’t know that we’re gonna approach that here on this podcast. I think the thing is, is that when you find the dream job and you’ve actually interviewed for the dream job, and now it’s down to brass tacks, and they’re giving you an offer, and you look at it near gone really. Right. Pays that right? I, you know, certainly we encourage everybody to do research on salaries, in, of course, understand that you’re not gonna get necessarily every time an accurate picture of what the salary will be. Now, hopefully if you’re in the interview process, you can ask, what is the salary range budgeted for this position? And if the person comes back to well, I don’t know, I would challenge the truth in that generally, HR and the hiring manager have an idea of what this position should pay. When they’ve said that to me, that’s a that’s an indication to me that this interview is not going any further and that’s fine. Because now I know that I can’t wrap up the conversation and maybe I’ll get another half hour back in my day. And really, that’s why we always encourage at least my clients deferred they’ve salary, conversely, at a salute as long as possible. Right. Yes. Because the more that they have bought into you as a solution, and that fits in with your dream job aspirations, the rare likely they are to negotiate or go back to the well, and get additional friends or whatever that looks like on the back end. I totally agree. And I have actually said to people when they brought up salary early in the conversation, I, I make a joke of it. And I say, oh, does that mean we’re already into salary negotiations? Is this the offer? Yes. Where’s the offer and the generally laughs about this? But it gives me time it also gives me another chance to connect with them on a different level. So because that is the information I need to know what are they really liked to work with. So if I can throw that. And sidestep that part of the conversation, I get a better idea of, is this truly the? Dream job. Or is it just the story? And I and I remember years ago, the story of a young woman who is who she loses her life unexpectedly, and it was a mistake. And she gets to the pearly gates and Saint Peter tells her listen, this is on us or sorry. This was an error, so we’re going to give you a choice. We normally don’t offer you can either spend eternity in how or you can choose to spend it in heaven. But we are going to give you one week to spend in both places so you can make an informed choice and she starts by saying, well, I don’t think I really need to experience it. I think I know. And he’s all the same were going to give you this chance.
10:02 – 15:12
So takes her the elevator. She goes down the doors open to hell, and it is beautiful. The weather is perfect. She it opens up onto a Gulf horse. There’re all her friends in great close. They have all kinds of foods. She plays eighteen holes. Everything is. Great. It is a wonderful experience. And this is the whole week, right? So then takes the elevator. Spins a heavenly week in heaven. And so at the end of that second week, Saint Peter comes to her and says, okay, it’s time for you to make your choice. And she says, I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I think I’m going to choose hell because I had such a great experience and said, okay, if you’re sure, because you can’t change your mind. No. I really think all my friends are there. It’s going to be great. So he sends her wishes her. Well sensor back down on the elevator. And the doors open is everything you expect hell to be the fire and brimstone thing. And they’re all of her friends, but now they’re in rags and same shows up and says, oh, well come she said, what happened the close the food the Gulf, the weather. What happened? Oh, that was the interview now you’re higher. How many of us have had that experience on the job? Right. Knowing that story and. I still run into that experience from time to time. That’s human nature. We want to put that game face on. We want our potential employees to feel good about choosing us because, you know, something as hiring managers we take personally to that’s why hiring managers don’t want to be interviewed. They want control over the conversation taking that dream job is really an act of faith, and hope it’s an a demonstration of your own confidence. Don’t confuse the change from the dream job to the nightmare as necessarily their fault. We made a choice, right? We get to choose a lot of what happens with our careers. If we are keeping an open mind and understanding that the people, we work for are also human, and they may not have been completely forthcoming with some of the negative stuff, we can have make a less than perfect. Job into something better. I always get to that point in love this story, by the way, it was great. I think it also applies to people that are actually working because a lot of the idea, here is that you’re going through a process you may be identified something. That’s good for you. But this could also happen when you’re on the job. Absolutely end. If you get a new leader or you’re trying to make an upgrade into this process to something better more in alignment with what you think the dream is. And I think really, it’s a process by which you need to make sure that that role does relief check, all of your boxes and that you ask some extra questions or in the interview process to make sure that you have ballot Asian, I’ve talked to people, and I suppose I’ve done it myself where you take a job where it doesn’t check all the boxes and you hope that the extra boxes are going, the unchecked bugs, his bigger actual check box, if that’s the case, then I strongly recommend that the candidate say. These are all of my goals, and this job will fulfill these this part, I would like to explore as as our relationship builds the possibility of checking the others. And that way, if they opt not to choose you because you have other goals that is actually a good thing, doesn’t feel good in the moment. I understand that been there, they have done you favor by not letting you take job that is going to underwhelmed. You later that also is not good for them. Well in what I heard there, Scott is that you really believe, and I think every candidate should believe it as well that you need to stand up for yourself and Selena hiring process. Here’s the thing. It’s always self selecting if you stay on four something in that company doesn’t provide it, it worked out. Yeah. When you say -actly, but on the flip side. If you don’t see end up for something then you don’t have an opportunity to actually do it. Once you stand up for it, and you say you wanna do this then. You get the chance to do it. When we go into these interviews. We tend to feel like the dog because we have none of the control right? Well, actually we do. I make a point whenever whether I’m interviewing potential client or a potential employer. This is a two way interview. And if they don’t provide me enough time to answer to ask questions. That is an indication of their maintaining control. It’s possible that they may be that controlling if they’re your employer as well. Personally is not something that I enjoy. So I probably wouldn’t be as happy. There is a place that is really more trying to understand what my goals are, and how that can contribute to them rather than what am I gonna do for them? Those are two very different approaches to interview and the experiences, therefore different.
15:12 – 20:04
If you have the latter experience that is saying, oh, no. What are you going to contribute to me, and looks like the dream job? But you’re not sure. Sure the chances are pretty good. You’re going to get disappointed down the road because they’re really not focused on. What’s good for you? If instead that interview is about okay candidate. What are you looking for? What are you trying to do? And when people say, oh, where do you see yourself in five years? Well, if I knew that I’d be rich, right? No. That is my opportunity to talk about personal goals. What do I want to do with my career? And how can my employment? They’re satisfied that. How can you help me as I help you look at this as a step toward that? Yeah. And, and it’s an opportunity for me to actually paint a vision. And if the Vision’s in alignment with what they need, even better executives could actually elevate that role to something that does pay well precisely because they are going to tap into the fact that you’re talking about something you really want that is what motivates hiring managers recruiters into hiring people. When they see that true, deep seated interest start to come out and you light up. They want that it’s compelling. I and I think to just based on what you said, is we never know, the dynamics of the organization, or the reorganization or succession planning, we may be offering them something they had in the back of their mind. That is now in the front of their mind because you brought it up, and they’re saying, wow. Well, I was gonna hire for not only this role that one we can get to do two for one. Wow. Okay. So now I can go, she ate a salary for myself compensation package. That’s what I want, or at least closer. Yeah. Because the last time I interviewed for full-time job, I was going for a role that I was overqualified for in the course of the interview process, they opened up a new position for me lake Boga. This can’t happen. Taking the job that underpays. In another it self is not a bad thing. There are choices that we need to prepare for and make as they come so that we are in control of our own careers because I will tell you when you’re doing a job that you truly love the pay is secondary. And I tell leaders this all the time, money is not a motivator. The research says up to sixty thousand and that, that number showcase but because there’s a survival mechanism. Yes. You don’t have your needs met. Right. Then it is a motive. Okay. What? No, no. That’s the thing money is not the motivator. It’s what money represents that is the motivator, so with that sixty thousand dollar figure, and that’s going to change based on different parts of the country world. And having the ability to sleep at night, that feed myself that the science. No, it’s not the money. It’s what it represents. But you have to know what your walkaway point is that gives you power. You have to know. What your various stages for the money game really are because that gives you you’re playing cards. You know, when you have the Trump card, and then if they say, no, you know, I understand this happened to me. It was what I felt was going to be the dream job. I could walk to work, and they were going to pay me fifteen thousand dollars less than I needed in order to pay my bills. I couldn’t take the job, even though it would have been a delightful job urva, but all other respect. Right. And working for really great people who cared that was not in their budget. They could not hire me for what I needed to pay the bills. What ended up happening was that experience opened up other doors, because I had made friends along the way I stayed in Tarazona everything it could have safely. If was don’t not apply just because it pays low, if it’s what you truly love, go have the conversation and be up front about that. So they don’t feel like you’re wasting their time either and certainly prepare narrative can take you in the direction you wanna go knowing that it may not work out. Right. And you may end up in a job where it meets. Let’s say forty percent of your needs for for financial but sixty percent of your needs for all the fulfilling things you are looking for. We always recommend. We’ve talked about this before, is it into days economy. You just don’t have the luxury of stopping the search it has to continue not you need to be one hundred percent dedicated or or hundred percent focus, but you should continue your search and tell you decide not to work anymore.
20:05 – 25:04
Yeah. You’re right. We don’t have the luxury of being able to just rest on our current situation because it is going to change and over. Time we’ve seen those changes happen more and more frequently you know that the cadence has sped up when I started working when it was common to see people in their careers for in their specific jobs for twenty thirty years now, people change jobs every two to three years. And that’s on average the fact that I was in an industry doing sales work in the hospitality industry, where it was an expectation if you were in your role for more than two years, people asked you what’s wrong with you. But that was unique to that role. Now. It’s everybody. And so, when we think about taking that dream job, if you can cover your bills and be responsible about your obligations and take the job you truly love. I it’s go for go for it because that is going to bring you fulfillment on more than just the monetary level. And then just start the process over again. Right. Looking for the next phase the next step in that dream. Because my suspicion is as we go through seasons of life, the dream changes. Yes, your motivations changed and, and the needs chain and the needs. The other thing that I been surprised about is how few people actually network within the organization that hired them because you never know what might be happening. I know I can think of a couple of people right up there. My head who have moved up in their company because they befriended, the CEO, not because they were particularly highly better than well. They were very skilled in what they were high skilled at knowing EEO. Well, that was the thing I think of one person particular who really knows her stuff in the role that she played, but she has continued to grow her job, based on the people. She speaks with every day as more people helped her with her visibility because they liked her. And they saw the talents that she was showing them. She continued to network within the organization and now she is at the top of her department. And I honestly I questioned some of her motives, she and I don’t have similar styles. She has been successful. I got a handed to her because she was following what she really enjoyed doing by all means network within your organization now work outside your organization, be sure you’re talking to people who do the things that you do. Or who align with what you really find valuable and joyful, and all these different emotions that you’re peeling. Well, it’s funny. You mentioned that because I had a conversation with a young man this week that it was kinda like that. Same thing. He was in this job. He had gotten the job in it was just like his maybe first foray out of college, and was just the job. He ended up in and he wasn’t inspired by it or yada, yada, yada. I said, how did you get there? We know what happened is. I was working as a frontline person. And I ended up befriending the vice president and I had a conversation with him and told him about my interest in doing quality control, work said, great. So you’ve been doing quality control work. Now. What’s next right said project management. And I said, well, have you gone back and talk to the VP one? No. Not since I started this QC job go back. I had to knock on wood because Hello. If that guy, did it, once, don’t you think he’s going to do it again? And I asked him what, what approach do you think you should take? When you go back and talk to him. If somebody gave you something as nice as job that you are interested in, how would you treat them? What would you say? He said, thank you. Go to. I said you’re right on track. Yeah. You don’t need me as a coach to tell you that, you know, intuitively inside of tasks that you need to go talk to him, say, thank you, let them know about your interests. What you’ve learned in QC job, especially right? Yep. And just say. Thank you. Because that you’re now telling him this is how you have helped me succeed, and that is a great feeling for a leader that they know that they can know that they have had that positive impact on an employee’s life. Of course, they’re going to then help you take your next step because they’re going to get that feeling again. When you come back to, to say all the new successes. Right. This is true of any networking opportunity that you have, and we’d you and I talk all the time about the follow up as you have the successes. It’s important to go back to the people who referred you to this job in the first place to let them know you helped me succeed, and it’s not butter them up. It’s to help them stay strong in your network. And because they want to be strong in your network, and they want to know the rest of the stories, the whole poll, Paul Harvey thing.
25:04 – 26:32
Yeah. Right. They don’t have enough drama in their own lives. So they need some of ours. Well, that does it for this episode of job seekers radio, you can get shown oats and resources at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four six. Free resource. We haven’t resell, I’ve pretty sure we do, so we have a free resource. What we want you to do is go to job seekers. Radio dot com and download the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that we put together for you to help you with networking, and to have the make these conversations. He’s in bolt zippy will the recipe book for successful. I like that. Yeah. To cookbook. I like that. It’s got all the ingredients. You need to be success. I love. All right. Well, thanks for joining us, for this episode of job seekers radio, we knowledge, your investment of time, and we really appreciate your attention head over die, tunes, and subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re there, please rate and review us, this is how we get the word out. Yeah. Of course, there’s actually a link to itunes in the show notes. You make it super easy for you to go over there and participated in that actively. Absolutely. Yeah. So I’m Andrew. And I’m Scott until next time get up get out and get. Connected to people in your net. Everybody.